tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post8446867139014033069..comments2023-10-18T05:03:46.292-07:00Comments on Walking the Labyrinth: My Father...part Three: On Words and SilenceCameronhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13378591363411441816noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-26025884577490952722009-08-19T12:13:39.268-07:002009-08-19T12:13:39.268-07:00Second thing... :)
Reading over this, it brings u...Second thing... :)<br /><br />Reading over this, it brings up a question for me: granted, you don't want to come out to your father. But... as part of your relationship with him, what are the reasons for the patterns that have developed regarding your ability to talk to him and debate with him, or disagree with him, without bringing up issues of your identity?<br /><br />I mean... in order to disagree/debate with him over the issue of gay marriage, you don't have to start from the position of "I'm gay". It should be possible to argue the issue apart from your own identity -- although I'm not suggesting that you be dishonest and try to imply to him that you're one of those straight allies who supports gay rights (although plenty of them exist). <br /><br />I say this just because, for years upon years, obviously, I was silent about my own identity issues with my mother -- but that never stopped me from arguing with her when she would say thing that I politically or socially disagreed with. That was true long before she did her own political/social 180 -- though, even today, I have to argue with her sometimes, as some kneejerk remnant of her conservatism rears its head and I have to point it out.<br /><br />Is it that you feel you're unable to get into such a debate with your father without the danger of it BECOMING personal? You don't actually have to say, Dad, when you say that, you are *hurting me*, in order to say, Dad, when you say that, you are saying a very hurtful and unChristian thing. Or is it just that in the past, you've tried to have these discussions/debates with him, and you've given it up for whatever reason?<br /><br />(I've also related that I have often wondered what would have happened if I'd gotten the chance to interact with my own father as an adult. I believe he and my mother were equally stubborn, but my father was far more volatile; yet, I consider myself more like him. I think we would have disagreed vehemently on a lot of things. The question is whether I would have persisted in arguing/disagreeing with him, or whether I would have just written it off as not worth the effort/upset it would have caused, and just worked to avoid any such discussions with him at all. Certainly, I avoid social/political discussions with my brother and his wife because I don't *want* to get into arguments, and suspect that we would. But that's different. They've never said anything egregious in front of me that I had to bite my lip and just ignore.)<br /><br />It does seem likely that if his close and much-beloved daughter doesn't disagree with him and show him that other viewpoints are possible, that nobody else is going to. And at the moment, he does love and respect you -- so might your disagreement with him not carry some weight? I don't want to make it sound like it's that easy (I know it isn't), and if you just don't want to deal with it, I can understand that. But what I read here seems to say that what he says sometimes hurts you, and you feel powerless to answer it without going into ALL of it. And I'm wondering: why?HollyHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09051920326789318208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-35701511353687629362009-08-19T11:59:45.491-07:002009-08-19T11:59:45.491-07:00Reading over this, a couple of things struck me. ...Reading over this, a couple of things struck me. First, from your reply to a comment above:<br /><br /><i>I think it's a generational thing - in his era - your family was your blood, your family and friends were friends only. There was not really the concept of "family of choice" and certainly, "family of choice" was not rated on the scale of true family. It was an artificial devide created of the times he was born into, and the patriarchial veiws he is welded to.</i><br /><br />Actually, I have to disagree with that. Perhaps it's more true if you add "the time and place he was born into", but it's not just the times, or the generation.<br /><br />I expect that your Dad is somewhere in age between my parents, and my mother's second husband, Fred. (Remembering that even though I'm younger than you, my parents had me unusually late. They were juuust too young to serve in WWII, but only just; and Fred was old enough to serve in WWI.)<br /><br />My experience both with my parents and with Fred suggests that they subscribed FAR more to the "family of choice" ideal than to "family of blood". Fred made remarks that he came to prefer his family of choice to his own children from his first marriage. And I grew up seeing my parents' closest friends FAR more often than we saw my parents' siblings and their families. Partly, that was geography, but most of my father's family was fairly local, and we did see them; we just weren't particularly close to them. Meanwhile, the friends my parents had made were also "aunts and uncles" to me, and came to mean as much or more to me as my blood relatives. (I have no interest in seeing almost any of my blood family from either side, but would still welcome seeing some of those from the family-of-choice I grew up with.)<br /><br />So, something else going on there, perhaps. But it's not a universal to those generations.HollyHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09051920326789318208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-76871511967834296432009-08-14T22:49:15.190-07:002009-08-14T22:49:15.190-07:00Nods. And it is a gift...a sacrifice. One of the b...Nods. And it is a gift...a sacrifice. One of the biggest you can make. I wish you well in bearing it and send my thoughts and foci to you. May you always walk the path in light.<br /><br />Be safe and well.<br /><br />-AAlissia Megan Rose-Paithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02164580989960394362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-27213788405236122372009-08-06T20:51:43.873-07:002009-08-06T20:51:43.873-07:00I think I can live with him not ever knowing, rath...I think I can live with him not ever knowing, rather than run the risk of spending last years we have in this life together with our relationship devided, separated, grieving and angry. I would rather see the lines here and there of color that mark that aspect of our lives, my dad and me, rather than see the memories drowned in darkness and sorrow. Remember - with his views and his stubborness, and his beliefs, unless we could pull off a reconcilliation - which I am not willing to gamble on - he would go to his grave, heartbroken, shattered, thinking I am going to hell, blaming himself for whatever reason why I might be *that way*...my silence is not selfish self protection - it is the choice to bear the burden of silance rather than him bearing the burden of knowledge. True...he might come around. He might suprise me. Stranger, more miraculous things have happened. Lets put it this way - if I am ever Outed, one way or another - then that miracle will become all my hope and prayer and everything I will work for. But until then - he bore so many painful buredensome things for me - he carried me in a body cast up those stairs all those years ago and never counted the cost - maybe it would have been easier to leave me in my room those 8 weeks. Maybe it would have been easier to move me downstairs for the duration. Instead, he normalized what might have been my darkest most uncomfortable moments, by carrying me down the stairs every morning so that I was truly a part of the family and up the stairs every night so that I could be in my own room.<br /><br />My turn to bear the burden, when he is immobilized and frozen in time and space by his own blindspots and sociatal schemas. My turn to normalize our day to day interactions and never show the strain of the weight I bear in doing so. My turn...and my gift, back to him.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13378591363411441816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-82612780483789878822009-08-05T14:55:06.136-07:002009-08-05T14:55:06.136-07:00This one took me a while to contemplate. I had men...This one took me a while to contemplate. I had mentioned last night as we chatted that i wanted to wait till morning to reply.... unfortunately I woke at 8:30, an hour and a half from work, not dressed, and 30 minutes after I was supposed to be there! Late nights caught up with me.<br /><br />The three parts that comprise this are great. I feel the connection between the two of you....and the longing to have your dad accept that part of your life which you have hidden for so long, fearful of loosing him. And the inability to celebrate and say "This is the woman I love, and will for the rest of my life." It's heartbreaking.<br /><br />But I understand. I suspect that is one of the reasons I kept things so buried for so long until my mother passed. I don't think she could have handled it...I still have to call her best friend and explain why my ex and I aren't together. <br /><br />And the one thing that hit me hardest when reading it all the way through....... and maybe the saddest in it's own way. The only ones who can really hurt us, and hurt us deeply, are the ones we love the most. Things we laugh off from others are devastating from someone we love. <br /><br />I wish for you the peace to deal with this, and the possibility that one day you will be able to tell him about the depth of your love and feelings for him and for Dreamweaver. Because otherwise, after he passes, the inability to talk to him about who you are will always color how you see him....as strongly as a pink highlight on the edge of a chin.Alissia Megan Rose-Paithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02164580989960394362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-21595526054348019602009-08-05T11:36:56.067-07:002009-08-05T11:36:56.067-07:00Thanks Light, I treasure you!
And Starchild, I w...Thanks Light, I treasure you! <br /><br />And Starchild, I will tell him! *smile* I think it's a generational thing - in his era - your family was your blood, your family and friends were friends only. There was not really the concept of "family of choice" and certainly, "family of choice" was not rated on the scale of true family. It was an artificial devide created of the times he was born into, and the patriarchial veiws he is welded to. You are not alone - I had no friends that he EVER approved of (and that included my ex-husband!)with one STARTLING exception...Dreamweaver! For which I am eternally grateful, but I don't entirely understand. Mom and Dad embracing her as family where they would not totally accept my husband is one of lifes mysteries. It is this that makes me wonder if they don't on some level realize that she is my partner - wife - even if the words are never said. And of course, if the Gay word is ever said, this entire house of cards in it's delicate balance burns to the ground like it had gasoline poured on it. What a world. I have said it before - I am certain that mom KNOWS, not just suspects, due to unconnected comments she has made. Dad is a whole 'nother issue - a tangle of them! What he will accept subconsciously, he would reject violently, should it ever come to the light of day. So I walk the tight rope day by day...and pray a lot. You and Dad share one major thing in common...you both love me! And I love you both, with all my heart!Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13378591363411441816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-51686367642680171922009-08-05T01:38:50.201-07:002009-08-05T01:38:50.201-07:00"You're in trouble now... you forgot your..."You're in trouble now... you forgot your socks!"<br /><br />Pardon the inside joke, folks. Those words are my earliest memory of Cameron's dad, a man with astounding love for his only child, but none at all for her best friend. I sometimes think he spends all of his love, gentleness and compassion on his family, to the exclusion of the rest of humanity. Still, watching his way with with you, Cameron, and seeing him through your eyes, I can't help but feel a grudging affection for the old curmudgeon.<br /><br />Tell him I said "hi".Starchildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13086911610227878319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-12903606131027363822009-08-05T01:30:43.222-07:002009-08-05T01:30:43.222-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Starchildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13086911610227878319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1046770203613119482.post-33047942876370958852009-08-04T18:15:17.702-07:002009-08-04T18:15:17.702-07:00I wish I was still there so I could give you a hug...I wish I was still there so I could give you a hug. No one should have to deal with hiding, and I'm sorry that facets of your Dad clash so much with who you are and who you want him to know. You have my love and prayers.<br />~LightBrilliant or Somethinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08331456035966690838noreply@blogger.com